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misst wrote:

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Agent Elliot 007 wrote:

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I'm not undecided. I'm disgusted, sickened, depressed and angry, but not undecided. I indeed will be voting for McCain hardly because I really like him or any of his policy's. I don't at all. As said, I would've loved to vote for Hillary next week, but unfortunately, that's not a realistic option.

Why am I not surprised that you will indeed be voting for McCain? Thank you for answering my direct question, even though your route getting there was pretty suspect all along. Now, however, the question begs to be asked, how the HELL does one go from "would've loved to vote for Hillary next week" to. . .McCain? Seriously. Honestly? I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear about that route, even if it does take up pages and pages of text. I'm up for it. Seriously.

I'd also like to say that I've enjoyed all the comments/ideas/insights here, and I have found the comments from non-U.S. citizens particularly interesting. While certainly anecdotal, they have still confirmed what I have suspected for the last 8 years. I've been fortunate to have traveled internationally quite a bit in the last decade, particularly since 9/11, and these comments pretty much echo the opinions I've heard from every single non-American with whom I've conversed.

I'm far from being naive, and I haven't drunk the Kool-aid. I'm a realist, and I think this new administration will have unprecedented challenges (duh), but man, you've got to start somewhere. I think Hope is a better start than talking about which parts of the country or which people are pro-American and which are not. So, I'm with John Mayer on this one. I'm placing my bet on HOPE. You betcha

While there are many issues that could be delved into, it's not really necessary to answer the question. Hillary is married to a guy named Bill. He used to be president. He wasn't perfect, but he did a pretty good job. I don't care that he was a womanizer. I don't respect it, but find me a politician that's not a sleezeball on some level and I'll start looking down on Bill Clinton for it. Anyways, the Clintons have been in the White House before. They have history. They have people that they would undoubtedly bring in because of said history. Like all Bill Clintons policy's or not, he is an extremely intelligent, shrewd politician who knows how to play the game. And it is a game to some extent, make no mistake.

Hillary is far from perfect on her own and even with Bill, but look at what she's up against. McCain and Obama? McCain sold his soul to the Republican party to run and has lost touch with communicating ideas that once made him an accessible politician and Obama spews more senseless feel-good bullshit than any candidate ever to come before him. Meanwhile, any plan he proposes is outlandishly unrealistic and the frightening thing is, you get the feeling that he might actually try to go through with a lot of it should he win which might seem great until he drives our economy right into the ground. So anyways, Hillary over McCain or Obama? Oh so easy. There are plenty of things I don't like about her in terms of her plans and philosophies, but at the end of the day, do I believe that she and a team of players she assembled would be most effective at managing this mess we're in and have been on the bring of for years? Absolutely, without a doubt. No question in my mind.

And how I got from Hillary to McCain? Again, to keep it simple, I see it playing out like this...

Hillary: things likely start to get better, hardly perfect or great, still hard but better...on our way to recovery. The Clinton's have proven themselves to be strong leaders at the highest of levels.

McCain: while I'm not convinced he'll do much to fix things, I don't think he'll do much to make it worse either, at this delicate stage in the game I'll take that over...

Obama: I absolutely think he will make it worse should he try to actually go forward with any of his plans. They sound good and they get votes but they just don't make any sense in the real world, especially given the economic mess we're in now. I don't know how more clear I can be. While all this stuff he talks about sounds great, we don't have the money or the means to make it happen and if you mess with too much right now, you run the risk of bringing the whole ship down.

Another big reason I'm voting McCain over Obama is checks and balances. Remember that? Well, given that we're probably going to have a democratic house and senate, it wouldn't be too balanced with a democratic president as well. I would've voted for Hillary over this as I think she was a major league candidate running against minor leaguers, but with Obama as the democratic choice, no way in hell I don't vote to uphold some semblance of balance.

I am very well aware of the fact that John McCain is not a good candidate for President, but he's been around long enough for us to get an idea of what he's about, and again, it's hardly spectacular and downright silly at times, but at worst I don't think he'll let it get any worse than it already is. I can't say it enough. I don't know what Obama's real intentions are as he's given us little to go on in terms of a record even while in public office. Aside from the fact that it's troubling that someone like him is running for President with so little government experience, even if he had the best intentions in mind and was as noble as man can be and all that feel-good stuff, it doesn't change the fact that we don't have the money to make it happen and to dig deeper into a deficit as well as promoting the types of ideas (loans...) that helped get us into this mess in the first place is only going to hurt us more.

His taxes on small businesses will reach much further than he's suggesting (close to 20% initially plus more who will have decreased revenue as unemployment rises and spending decreases) and generally speaking, if he pushes his plans, have no doubts, every last one of us will see tax increases and even so, our deficit will continue to grow to obscene new heights. You cannot cut taxes and increase government spending without adding to the deficit and it is already far too high. Taxing the wealthy won't even support a small fraction of one individual segment of one of his plans. The numbers don't add up at all. And again, back to the intentions thing, I have no idea what his intentions are. I'm operating under the perspective of him having good intentions. Heaven knows what he really might try to pull. I'm not talking the radical BS on TV. I'm just saying, we don't really have a good idea of what this guy is really about when he has to put his money where his mouth is.

I could go on and on and cite a whole lot of stuff and bring up this whole currency mess and show the link between the fiasco and our irresponsible spending that is largely a result of petty politicking. I can cite economic principles. I can cite examples from history. I can cite political philosophy. I can cite world economic situations. I can cite hard data on how much these plans cost compared to how large our deficit is, how much a military/war costs to run, how much taxing the rich will bring in and how much even an extremely generous view of governmental cuts would save. I can cite countless realistic problems that we're facing no matter who's elected. There's a lot of reality to discuss. But Obama supporters don't want to talk about reality. They want to talk about "hope" and ideas with no foundation in reality. There is a reality that is fast approaching us that is not going to be fun at all. Make no mistake. If Obama's elected and he conducts himself at all like he he suggests he will, it will be here in no time. John Mayer can get back to me if he'd like to talk about numbers. Why should he care though? He's worth millions. He'll be fine.

I wanted to write a little. Oops. Simply summary of how I got from Hillary to McCain. Hillary: not exactly great. McCain: not really good. Obama: just plain stupid. He is the single worst candidate this country has ever seen. I'll go so far as to say that he could become the one guy that Americans come to hate more than George Bush. Not saying he will, but he's certainly got potential. To be fair though, McCain's got a good shot too. Whoever is president next is going to look horrible any way it goes.

ciamar wrote:

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Agent Elliot 007 wrote:

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Like that senior social security thing earlier. She's like "so bold" and "it'd be great if he could do it" but even the more liberal U.S. news outlets were calling foul on that one. And again, dozing........goodnight.....don't sweat it though. I'm not offended either way. I just want people to be aware of the reality before we wind up with a nation full of people unwilling to trust anyone who comes along even if they're great because they got burnt on the biggest false hope campaign ever.

I said I thought the plan was bold, as in audacious, forward or gutsy and based on the criticisms listed in the article you referenced, that statement is accurate. I also said I would be proud if he could pull it off. If you're going to use quotations, don't paraphrase. Now of course this plan doesn't really define what a "Senior" is but some may have a distorted idea of what those over the age of 65 who make 50,000.00 or less receive in other income or in social security. If they are getting a social security check, they may very well be getting other pensions and if they've got assets, then they're paying taxes on those as well. The main reason I would think this would aide the elderly who work is so they can afford to pay for their health care benefits that may have ended or be reduced with retirement.

Anyway, my husband and I were having a discussion this morning and he said, "voting is emotional, it's not rational and people don't understand that." He also said this was election is not "for McCain or Obama, it's anti-Bush" to which people have very emotional reactions. If Obama does win, because I for one don't believe this election is in the bag for Barack, I hope the way he has run this campaign is an indication of the way his administration will be run. And I know hope is a dirty word, but so is bullshit and I've had enough of it these last eight years.

Except the criticisms are there because it's a blatantly stupid idea. It's obvious political double-dipping in many ways. The liberal outlets aren't going to rip an Obama plan unless it's really stupid, like this one. There's nothing bold or admirable about it. He's playing a game because it sounds good to a mostly-ignorant public but it's silly at best. It's just petty pandering. And while I can appreciate the sentiment about healthcare in all honestly, at best, it's a far bigger issue than this particular plan could address. Neither candidate has suggested a plan that is at all reasonable. They're both absurd in their own ways. Health care won't be getting fixed anytime soon in this country. We could cut spending to the max and pull out of Iraq tomorrow and we wouldn't have the money for awhile. And yes, it does suck. And yes, hope is a dirty word and I'm really tired of bullshit, that's why I'm definitely not voting for Obama. His campaign might be the most bullshit-filled campaign ever. You nailed it though. Right or wrong, this is about Bush. Obama could sit down and recite comic book dialogue word for word to people and he'd maintain leads in the polls and have a strong chance of winning. I'm no comic book fan, but I might've enjoyed that better than "change" ad nauseam...