Looking forward to his pick, and I cannot say how relieved I am it's his pick and not McCain's. NPR has had some great pieces on the possible candidates.
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yermama |
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Obama Supreme Court
nominee expected this week
Looking forward to his pick, and I cannot say how relieved I am it's his pick and not McCain's. NPR has had some great pieces on the possible candidates.
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Kate8Late: i post there occasionally but i don't like the home-call beatings they deliver Kate8Late: the only board where they actually come to your house to kick the shit out of you. "Don't feed the trolls," -M1992 |
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supposeisaid7 |
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On that note, I suggest you consider the following:
Empathy Versus Law Walter E. Williams Wednesday, May 20, 2009 President Obama's articulated criteria for his nominee to the U.S. Supreme Court is: "We need somebody who's got the heart to recognize -- the empathy to recognize what it's like to be a young teenage mom, the empathy to understand what it's like to be poor or African-American or gay or disabled or old. And that's the criteria by which I'm going to be selecting my judges." What is the role of a U.S. Supreme Court justice? A reasonable start for an answer is the recognition that our Constitution represents the rules of the game. A Supreme Court justice has one job and one job only namely; he is a referee. There is nothing complicated about this. A referee's job, whether he is a football referee or a Supreme Court justice, is to know the rules of the game and make sure that they are evenly applied without bias. Do we want referees to allow empathy to influence their decisions? Let's look at it using this year's Super Bowl as an example. The Pittsburgh Steelers have won six Super Bowl titles, seven AFC championships and hosted 10 conference games. No other AFC or NFC team can match this record. By contrast, the Arizona Cardinals' last championship victory was in 1947 when they were based in Chicago. In anyone's book, this is a gross disparity. Should the referees have the empathy to understand what it's like to be a perennial loser and what would you think of a referee whose decisions were guided by his empathy? Suppose a referee, in the name of compensatory justice, stringently applied pass interference or roughing the passer violations against the Steelers and less stringently against the Cardinals. Or, would you support a referee who refused to make offensive pass interference calls because he thought it was a silly rule? You'd probably remind him that the league makes the rules, not referees. I'm betting that most people would agree that football justice requires that referees apply the rules blindly and independent of the records or any other characteristic of the two teams. Moreover, I believe that most people would agree that referees should evenly apply the rules of the games even if they personally disagreed with some of the rules. The relationship between Supreme Court justices and the U.S. Constitution should be identical to that of referees and football rules. The status of a person appearing before the court should have absolutely nothing to do with the rendering of decisions. That's why Lady Justice, often appearing on court buildings, is shown wearing a blindfold. It is to indicate that justice should be meted out impartially, regardless of identity, power or weakness. Also, as Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said, "Men should know the rules by which the game is played. Doubt as to the value of some of those rules is no sufficient reason why they should not be followed by the courts." The legislative branch makes the rules, not judges. Interventionists often make their case for bending the rules based on the unfairness of outcomes such as differences in income, education and wealth. After all, how can the game of life possibly be fair when some people's yearly income totals in the hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars, while many others scarcely earn twenty or thirty thousand dollars? Some people find that argument persuasive but it's nonsense. Income distribution is an outcome and fairness cannot be determined by outcomes. It's the same with football. The Steelers winning six Super Bowl titles and Arizona winning none is an outcome and cannot be used to determine football fairness. Fairness in either case must be settled by process questions such as: Were the rules unbiased and evenly applied? If so, any outcome is just and actions based on empathy would make it unjust. Copyright © 2009 Salem Web Network. All Rights Reserved. |
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ReddEyee |
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boy, i wish we'd learn to pee in our own yards only
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yermama |
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word. But I have so much ...er...empathy...for all GOP conservatives. What a nightmare this must be for them! Feeling helpless and victimized and fearful
for our country. It's a miserable way to feel, and they've got at least 3 and 1/2 more years of it. Been there done that 2000-Nov 3, 2008.
Michelle, I'm sorry I'm not interested in all your cut & pastes. I've had my fill of that mindset ruining our country the last 8 years. You can paste all you want here, but it won't be me engaging you ideologically on here. Other than this comment, I'll step away from engaging with you on political posts.
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Kate8Late: i post there occasionally but i don't like the home-call beatings they deliver Kate8Late: the only board where they actually come to your house to kick the shit out of you. "Don't feed the trolls," -M1992 |
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my name is navy |
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I agree with the article that judgment should be unbiased, but the law has too many gray areas which is why we have a justice system. Think about it: What is
justice? What is judgment? These concepts stem from moral sensibilities and a matter of opinion. Law also fluctuates from state to state (like gay marriage and
age of consent), country to country (drinking age) because not everyone can agree on what is right and wrong. Is it right that our 18-year-olds binge drink on
vacation in Mexico, but not in the U.S.? The law says it is, but some people may disagree. Is it right that a 16-year-old can have sex with a 29-year-old in
Delaware, but the same act can be charged as rape in the state of California? The law says it's right.
The task given to Judges is to interpret the law. They're not trying to change it or obscure it because.. let's face it: the law is obscure all on its own. You can argue that Supreme Court rulings have introduced new laws or changed them in the past, but that goes to show that the law is full of holes that need to be filled. I think the addition of empathy into the justice system is refreshing and needed in a country where equal rights only exists on paper. And for all the religious conservatives who may argue against Obama's quest for empathy with justice, let me ask you: Wasn't Jesus empathetic? Isn't God empathetic? |
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yermama |
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Everything I've read about Sotomayor makes me happy about this Supreme Court nominee. Her judicial experience is extensive. The fact that
she has the Bush Sr. stamp of approval should please the conservatives on some level. If not, then the GOP has drifted so far right, they're falling off
the political map.
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Kate8Late: i post there occasionally but i don't like the home-call beatings they deliver Kate8Late: the only board where they actually come to your house to kick the shit out of you. "Don't feed the trolls," -M1992 |
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styla73 |
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http://www.hrc.org/news/11542.htm
reposted from twitter.. list of companies that supported Prop 8. "We don't get civil rights, they don't get our $" thought a few here might appreciate the info. it's a sad, sad day. "all are equal under the law, except for those who aren't..." You can take all the tricks up my sleeve.... |
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rocknrollqueen |
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ha-even their own side knows they can't win their smear campaign on Sotomayor. Sore losers! Go ahead and say she's not qualified--she's a
racist-blah blah blah....it's never been more obvious how ridiculous and wrong the GOP crazies are this time. Go Yale Law school!!!!
By Ed Rollins CNN Contributor Editor's note: Ed Rollins, a senior political contributor for CNN, is Senior Presidential Fellow at the Kalikow Center for the Study of the American Presidency at Hofstra University. He was White House political director for President Reagan and chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee.
Ed Rollins says the GOP shouldn't go to war over the Sotomayor nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court. NEW YORK (CNN) -- Almost everybody cheers for the underdog -- maybe not those born to upper-class standing with great advantages, but those of us who weren't always want the little guy to be victorious. We want hard work and extra effort to be rewarded. Standing at the front of the East Room of the White House Tuesday morning were two Americans who clearly had started life as underdogs. One is now our president, son of a Kenyan. The other is the daughter of Puerto Rican parents who is about to sit on the highest court in the land. Both were born without privilege. Both were raised in households with little cash, but much love. Both were raised by strong, devoted mothers who worked hard to support them. Both were encouraged that through hard work and education they could go beyond the boundaries of their environment and their class. Somehow the flame of ambition was lit and both became outstanding students who didn't need affirmative action programs to get to the top of their class. Both are extraordinary role models for the next generation of Americans and both will be historic figures. And the important thing is that both President Obama and Judge Sonia Sotomayor never forgot where they came from or the people who helped them move forward to such heights. It was a day to make all Americans proud. Now we begin a process that might not make Americans proud. The Senate confirmation hearings for Sotomayor will begin in the coming weeks and already the long knives are out. The historic role of the Senate to advise and consent to a president's judicial nominations has become in the last few years a process of "attack and condemn." Unfortunately, the battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party that has raged for the last several weeks is now spilling over into the debate over Sotomayor's ideology and judicial temperament. The challenge has been laid down by conservative commentators that "if not now, when!" The terms " radical liberal" and "reverse racist" are being bantered about, with more to come. Don't MissThose who have not been able to lay a glove on President Obama, with his 60 percent-plus approval ratings, now think they can define him by smearing Sotomayor. For a political party that lost an election just six months ago by 9½ million votes, the second largest vote margin of defeat ever for a Republican presidential candidate, you would think we would shut our mouths and figure out how to get more votes in the future. But instead we have gotten into a raging debate over the purity of the party and who's a better Republican. Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, Tom Ridge, Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh and even Meghan McCain have had their say along with the new party chairman, Michael Steele. But a political party is not a religion. We don't get up every weekend and go to our church or synagogue or mosque or wherever else we might practice our beliefs and pay homage to the great tenets of the Republican Party, or the Democratic Party for that matter. Of all the things that are important to me, I don't get up every morning and say first and foremost I've got to go out and be a good Republican today and spread the gospel and beat up on President Obama and the wretched Democrats. Like most Americans, I wake up every day and think about my wife, my daughter, my friends, my neighbors, my job and go to work. I worry about my favorite sports teams and whether they won or lost. I do think of myself as an American and thank the almighty that I have that privilege. And as an American, I do worry about the direction of my country and the decisions made by our elected leaders. That is where political parties matter. Political parties are vehicles to help elect people to office. Elected officials are the name of the game. And what people do when they are elected is what matters to most Americans. Here is where the conduct of the Republican Senators will have a big impact on the future of this party in this crucial rebuilding period. Sotomayor will have a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court. Senators, both Democrats and Republicans, have a right and an obligation to question her and get to know her views. But they must treat her with the respect she deserves and has earned. Let me state that I am sure Sotomayor and I don't agree on very much. And I am sure some of her liberal rulings will drive me nuts. But President Obama won, is a liberal and gets to put liberals on the court. That's the way it works. Ideology aside, is she qualified? There can be no debate over her qualifications. Her lifetime achievements in the academic world, in the legal world and the judicial world are unchallengeable. If that was the only measure, she would be confirmed unanimously. That isn't going to happen! We are into full-bore political battle within the Republican Party, with conservatives and pragmatists arguing over what are the best tactics to stop the direction that this young president and his congressional allies are taking us. But I just offer a word of caution. The confirmation of Sonia Sotomayor is not the battle to be waged and it won't be won. No one should be brutalized like Judge Robert Bork was in the 1980s. And no one should be rubber-stamped either. Sotomayor is not deserving to be on the Supreme Court because she is Puerto Rican or a woman. She has been appointed by the president because she is extremely well-qualified. Judge those qualifications fairly and without malice. To do less will antagonize Hispanic and female voters, two voter groups Republicans must do better with to have any chance of electoral success. In 1981 when Sandra Day O'Connor was nominated by President Reagan to be the first woman on the court, she was confirmed unanimously. When Antonin Scalia was nominated, also by President Reagan, he was confirmed 98-0. He was the first American of Italian descent appointed to the court. Sotomayor, if confirmed, will be the 111th judge to sit on the court. One-hundred-six white men, two African-American men and two white women have gone before her. The appointment of a Hispanic-American is long overdue. Appointing another woman is critical also. But she's there because of her own accomplishments, not her gender or her heritage. Republicans are in a position where we are the underdogs. Unfortunately, no one is cheering for us to win. These nationally televised hearings may be an opportunity for Republican senators to take a step in the right direction. Don't treat her like a lady. Treat her like an extremely qualified American who the president chose to elevate to the nation's highest court. |
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supposeisaid7 |
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"Out of Context"
Thomas Sowell Tuesday, June 02, 2009 In Washington, the clearer a statement is, the more certain it is to be followed by a "clarification" when people realize what was said. The clearly racist comments made by Judge Sonia Sotomayor on the Berkeley campus in 2001 have forced the spinmasters to resort to their last-ditch excuse, that it was "taken out of context." If that line is used during Judge Sotomayor's Senate confirmation hearings, someone should ask her to explain just what those words mean when taken in context. What could such statements possibly mean-- in any context-- other than the new and fashionable racism of our time, rather than the old-fashioned racism of earlier times? Racism has never done this country any good, and it needs to be fought against, not put under new management for different groups. Looked at in the context of Judge Sotomayor's voting to dismiss the appeal of white firefighters who were denied the promotions they had earned by passing an exam, because not enough minorities passed that exam to create "diversity," her words in Berkeley seem to match her actions on the judicial bench in the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals all too well. The Supreme Court of the United States thought that case was important enough to hear it, even though the three-judge panel on which Judge Sotomayor served gave it short shrift in less than a page. Apparently the famous "empathy" that President Obama says a judge should have does not apply to white males in Judge Sotomayor's court. The very idea that a judge's "life experiences" should influence judicial decisions is as absurd as it is dangerous. It is dangerous because citizens are supposed to obey the law, which means they must know what the law is in advance-- and nobody can know in advance what the "life experiences" of whatever judge they might appear before will happen to be. It is absurd because it flies in the face of the facts. It was a fellow Puerto Rican judge on the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals-- Jose Cabranes-- who rebuked his judicial colleagues for the cavalier way they dismissed the white firefighters' case. On the Supreme Court, the justice whose life story is most like that of Sonia Sotomayor-- Clarence Thomas-- has a very different judicial philosophy from hers. The clever people in the media and elsewhere are saying that "inevitably" one's background influences how one feels about issues. Even if that were true, judges are not supposed to decide cases based on their personal feelings. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said that he "loathed" many of the people in whose favor he voted on the Supreme Court. Obviously, he had feelings. But he also had the good sense and integrity to rule on the basis of the law, not his feelings. Laws are made for the benefit of the citizens, not for the self-indulgences of judges. Making excuses for such self-indulgences and calling them "inevitable" is part of the cleverness that has eroded the rule of law and undermined respect for the law. Something else is said to be "inevitable" by the clever people. That is the confirmation of Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court. But it was only a year and a half ago that Hillary Clinton's winning the Democratic Party's nomination for president was considered "inevitable." The Republicans certainly do not have the votes to stop Judge Sotomayor from being confirmed-- if all the Democrats vote for her. But that depends on what the people say. It looked like a done deal a couple of years ago when an amnesty bill for illegal aliens was sailing through the Senate with bipartisan support. But public outrage brought that political steamroller to a screeching halt. Nothing is inevitable in a democracy unless the public lets the political spinmasters and media talking heads lead them around by the nose. The real question is whether the Republican Senators have the guts to alert the public to the dangers of putting this kind of judge on the highest court in the land, so that they will at least have some chance of stopping the next one that comes along. It would be considered a disgrace if an umpire in a baseball game let his "empathy" determine whether a pitch was called a ball or strike. Surely we should accept nothing less from a judge.
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rocknrollqueen |
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too bad the moron talking heads out there have no idea what the "New Haven" case is about...but since I live here--this from one of the Law school
folk involved:
Also re Ricci: It's sad to me how badly people misunderstand this case, because they don't understand (or just don't agree with) the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Title VII of that act prohibits the use of tests that have a "disparate impact" against any racial group, unless those tests have a "business necessity." Here, while in previous years the City had used tests that did not have a disparate impact, this year the test did. Unlike other tests from other years, this time, blacks came out badly enough that the City determined it would be liable under Title VII for using a test with a disparate impact. Apparently the city did not think it could really justify this particular test in terms of "business necessity" -- it had various questions like whether you are supposed to park your fire engine facing "uptown" or "downtown" (?) that were not applicable to New Haven, and the City had not done any validation procedure for the test but just went ahead and used it. Facing a possible lawsuit, the City's Civil Service Board deadlocked 2-2 about whether to certify the test results. That led to no certification. Before the City could put together a new test, Ricci and some other white firefighters sued, claiming that it was race discrimination for the City to try to comply with Title VII. (Actually, I think a lot of their claim had to do with the allegation that this all had nothing to do with Title VII but was racial patronage politics. But the trial judge found no evidence to support that accusation.) New Haven has a long history of race discrimination in firefighting -- against blacks. That's exactly the kind of history that Title VII is there to disrupt. The conservatives on the U.S. Supreme Court will try to use this case to hack away at Title VII's disparate impact provision. That's what some conservative judges on the Second Circuit tried to do too. That's their perogative. But Sonia Sotomayor and the majority of the Second Circuit just followed current law in holding that if New Haven was indeed trying to comply with Title VII as it now stands (and that's what the trial judge found), then it was not violating anyone's rights. You may not like it, you may agree with the conservatives that the law should be changed, but don't try to hang Sonia Sotomayor for following existing precedent. Under existing law, this was not a hard case. She and the other judges found that the trial judge, Janet Arterton, had written a solid opinion, so they just wrote a short opinion basically saying she got it right. Although people may find the white firefighters sympathetic characters (especially Ricci, who spent a lot of time and money studying for the original, flawed test), that's not what law is about. Sonia Sotomayor's job on the Second Circuit is to follow precedent, not reach out and make law, and that is what she and the other judges did. |
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supposeisaid7 |
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Part 2 of yesterday's food for thought:
"Out of Context": Part II Thomas Sowell Wednesday, June 03, 2009 As the mainstream media circles the wagons around Judge Sonia Sotomayor, to protect her from the consequences of her own words and deeds, its main arguments are distractions from the issue at hand. A CNN reporter, for example, got all worked up because Rush Limbaugh had used the word "racist" to describe the judge's words. Whatever you may think about his choice of words, those words and the ideas behind them do not change the law of the land. The words and actions of Supreme Court justices do. Anyone who doesn't like what Rush Limbaugh says can simply turn off the radio or change the station. But you cannot escape the consequences of Supreme Court decisions. Nor will your children or grandchildren. What does it say about a nominee to the Supreme Court that the most that her defenders can say in her defense is that her critics used words that her defenders don't like? What does it say about her qualifications to be on the Supreme Court when her supporters' biggest talking points are that she had to struggle to rise in the world? Bonnie and Clyde had to struggle. Al Capone had to struggle. The only President of the United States who was forced to resign for his misdeeds-- Richard Nixon-- had to struggle. For that matter, Adolf Hitler had to struggle! There is no evidence that struggle automatically makes you a better person. Sometimes, instead of making you appreciative of a society in which someone born at the bottom can rise to the top, it leaves you embittered that you had to spend years struggling, and resentful of those who were born into circumstances where the easy way to the top was open to them. Much in the past of Sonia Sotomayor, and of the president who nominated her, suggests such resentments. Both have a history of connections with people who promoted resentments against American society. La Raza ("the race") was Judge Sotomayor's Jeremiah Wright. If context is important, then look at that context. Sonia Sotomayor has, in both her words and in her decision as a judge to dismiss out of hand the appeal of white firefighters who had been discriminated against, betrayed a racism that is no less racism because it is directed against different people than the old racism of the past. The code word for the new racism is "diversity." The Constitution of the United States says nothing about diversity and the Constitution is what a judge is supposed to pay attention to, not the prevailing buzzwords of the times. What the Constitution says is "equal protection of the laws" for all Americans-- and that is not taken out of context. People have put their lives on the line to make those words a reality. Now all of that is to be made to vanish into thin air by saying the magic word "diversity." The landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964, like the Constitution, proclaimed equal rights for all, not special rights for those for whom judges have "empathy." When the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was being debated in Congress, its opponents claimed that it would lead to discrimination against white people. Its supporters declared that it meant no such thing and added new provisions to make sure that it meant no such thing. That was the law that was passed. It was not the law, but the judges, who changed equal rights into special rights and thereby set the stage for the new mantra of "diversity" that trumps equal rights. Diversity was Judge Sotomayor's rationale for going along with the denial of equal rights for white firefighters in Connecticut. When all else fails, supporters of Judge Sotomayor say that she is Hispanic and a woman, and that it would be politically dangerous to deny her a place on the Supreme Court. This is as much an insult to the intelligence of Hispanic and female voters as it is to the Constitution of the United States and to those who put their lives on the line for equal rights.
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Posting Sowell's articles do nothing but reinforce the fact that he's kind of a moron.
Paige
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supposeisaid7 |
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I just love when people have every bit of their reasonings & arguments trumped, and they are left with their only line of
defense being name calling. If you've got such alleged superior logic and reasoning to debate the writings of this
supposed "moron", Mr. Sowell -- well I say, "Then speak it, missy!" But, the sad part is...you probably can't find actual reasonings
to nullify his arguments, can you?
Thomas Sowell Thursday, June 04, 2009 As part of the biographical preoccupation with Judge Sonia Sotomayor's past, the New York Times of May 31st had a feature story on the various New York housing projects in which she and other well-known people grew up-- including Whoopi Goldberg, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Thelonious Monk and Mike Tyson. There was a map of New York City and dots pin-pointing the location of the project in which each celebrity grew up. As an old New Yorker, I was struck by the fact that not one of the 20 celebrities shown grew up in a housing project in Harlem! The housing projects in which they grew up were different in another and more fundamental way. As the New York Times put it: "These were not the projects of idle, stinky elevators, of gang-controlled stairwells where drug deals go down." In other words, these were public housing projects of an earlier era, when such places were very different from what we associate with the words "housing project" today. Just the reference to unlocked doors on the apartments there, so that children could more easily visit playmates in nearby apartments on Saturday mornings to watch television, creates an image that must seem like something out of another world to those familiar only with the housing projects of today. There were standards for getting into the projects of those days and, if you didn't live up to those standards, they put you out. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was quoted as saying, "When kids played on the grass, their parent would get a warning." That seems almost quaint when you think of what has gone on in the housing projects of a later era. Since there has been so much talk of putting some of Sonia Sotomayor's inflammatory words "in context," perhaps we should put her personal life in context, if the media insist on making her personal life a factor in her nomination to the Supreme Court. While she grew up in a public housing project, the words "housing project" in that era did not mean anything like the housing projects of today. A relative of mine lived in one of the housing projects back then-- and we were proud of him, as well as glad for him, because such places were for upright citizens in those days-- working class people with steady jobs and good behavior. Clever intellectuals had not yet taught us to be "non-judgmental" about misbehavior or to make excuses for vandalism and crime. While Sonia Sotomayor was not born with a silver spoon in her mouth, let's not make her someone who rose from such depths as those conjured up by the words "housing projects" today. It is bad enough that biographical considerations carry such weight in considerations of nominees for the Supreme Court. But, if biography must be elaborated, let it at least be done "in context." It has always made me a little uneasy when generous well-wishers have discussed my educational background as if it was something almost miraculous that I came out of the schools in Harlem and went on to Ivy League institutions. But any number of other people did exactly the same thing. The Harlem schools of that era were no more like the Harlem schools of today than the housing projects of that era were like today's housing projects. They had classes grouped by ability and, if you were serious about getting a good education, you could get into one of the classes for kids who were serious and receive an education that would prepare you to go on in life. There is a lot to ponder about why both the schools and the housing projects degenerated so much after the bright ideas of the 1960s intelligentsia spread throughout society, leaving social havoc in their wake. Too many people who rose to where they are today because of a foundation of traditional values have become enthralled by the very different ideas prevalent in the elite intellectual circles to which they moved. Judge Sotomayor seems to be one of those, with her ideas about race and the policy-making role of judges. It is bad enough that so many of those "advanced" ideas have undermined for others the foundation that Sonia Sotomayor had as she grew up, despite being raised in a home with a modest income. There is no need to let her use the Supreme Court to destroy more of those traditional American values.
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supposeisaid7 wrote: You know, I have to say that I am sort of amused by your version of "logic" and "reasoning". I already provided you with some concrete facts regarding Sotomayor's purported racism in the other thread, and have asked you to comment on it more than once, but have yet to hear anything from you. I'll ask the question again (and if you choose to ignore it yet another time well then let's be honest, you're going to be looking just a tad ridiculous, don't you think?). And so I'll ask for a third time, if Sotomayor is a racist (as Sowell suggests), would you care to explain this analysis of her decisions on 96 discrimination claims in her time on the Second Circuit? Or tell me why she dissented in the Pappas v. Giuliani ruling? http://www.scotusblog.com...-from-the-full-data-set/
Paige
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starshine1763 |
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Or you could also go back to pages 14-16 of the GOP thread, where I got into a long discussion of Sowell's inaccurate description of the DHS report on
right wing extremists with a couple of other board members. A discussion, you'll note, where I was referencing an FBI report (released under GWB), the
Southern Poverty Law Center, and the actual detailed content of the original DHS report (which, by the way, was commissioned under GWB).
Or how about when you posted that article about how torture is incredibly necessary to obtain information on imminent terrorist attacks and I provided names of people who disagree and you never even bothered to continue a discussion with me about what those people said on the topic? For the record, their stories were pretty interesting and put the whole notion of "we have to torture" in a pretty poor light. Oh, and have I mentioned that they were largely men who have had a direct hand in and years of experience with the interrogation of terrorists and prisoners? But no, you're totally right. I've never found a single reasoning to nullify his arguments, not one. Of course, it's very easy for you to say that when you've purposely ignored any attempt I have made to enter into a discussion with you on the topic. Ignorance is bliss, huh?
Paige
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jsmusicbox |
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The title is fitting hahaha
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yermama |
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"Literal" payback is a bitch
Really wish they'd settle the MN race. Al Frankin in Congress is going to be a blast for so many reasons!
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Kate8Late: i post there occasionally but i don't like the home-call beatings they deliver Kate8Late: the only board where they actually come to your house to kick the shit out of you. "Don't feed the trolls," -M1992 |
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Adam Elkins |
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where are the "obama lies, soldiers die" bumper stickers?
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yermama |
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Oh, it's so sad. Especially when a human face is put on casualty numbers. Elkins, are you suggesting that Obama just pull out of Iraq right at this
moment? His troop withdrawal time table is not fast enough for you? Just think that if Bush hadn't put us in this misdirected, unnecessary war, all these
people would likely be alive.
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Kate8Late: i post there occasionally but i don't like the home-call beatings they deliver Kate8Late: the only board where they actually come to your house to kick the shit out of you. "Don't feed the trolls," -M1992 |
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supposeisaid7 |
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Can't wait to see all the lefties scramble to� minimize all of these connections as coincidental and meaningless.� The only thing that frustrates me about this clip is that he fails to point out at the end what is blatantly explained in their modus operandi....that the WAY these groups wanted to "collapse the economy" so their socialist structures might rise to popularity includes increasing the numbers of demands on the welfare and unemployment systems to unsustainable levels. Sound a little similar to what you see happening around you every day? Let me guess...that is purely coincidental too? I'm pissed at BOTH parties for this type of mismanagement and game playing. It needs to stop. IN BOTH parties!
Last Edited By: supposeisaid7
06/20/2009 11:22 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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