Lyric writing tips

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handonam	Lyric writing tips	Lead	[-]
Posts: 2069 (01/17/2009 12:30 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I wanna hear some tips you guys have heard for lyric writing. There isn't a thread around here that talks much about lyrics, so i figured i'd make this to throw into the resources thread at the top of the forum. Have you guys heard any tips, strats, or songwriting mistakes? I know cliches are one of the biggest problems in lyric writing, unless you can use it in such a way where it conveys an actually strong meaning. Lets get this rollin!
adam972		#1	[-]
Posts: 1106 (01/17/2009 12:36 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	" i met my 5th wife in a bathroom....aint no loving like that around"
CaitSings		#2	[-]
Posts: 8832 (01/17/2009 12:39 AM) I'm calling it love soon... Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	i think a lot of people get hung up on having their lyrics rhyme. that's what i used to run into when i wrote lyrics. now i just write instrumental stuff...so much less stressful. :-P and i threw this into the stickied thread for ya. good idea! Photos \| Soundclick
Rocknroll04		#3	[-]
Posts: 57 (01/17/2009 12:44 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If anyone is looking for a good book. Writing Better Lyrics by Pat Pattison is amazing, it really helped me
handonam		#4	[-]
Posts: 2069 (01/17/2009 12:59 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Rocknroll04, you need to post more often (and post some things you've learned about that book as well) How do you guys start writing your lyrics?
adam972		#5	[-]
Posts: 1106 (01/17/2009 12:59 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	im with cait on this one.
jonathan malone		#6	[-]
Posts: 1205 (01/17/2009 1:01 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	i write songs,,but am not really sure how i come up with lyrics...i first get chord changes,,,then melody,,,then think of a subject. And it goes from there
zaddN		#7	[-]
Posts: 1202 (01/17/2009 1:22 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	not sure if anyone is interested, and this paper might have sucked, but I did a bunch of research on the lyric writing process my freshmen year. Got to interview some cool people and all of that. I google doc'd it if anyone is interested. http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dd5kcj5v_1ckcpr4fr ---So here goes: close your eyes, get out of your own way, and JAM.---
handonam		#8	[-]
Posts: 2069 (01/17/2009 1:31 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	oh yea, also post online resources as well
ivy		#9	[-]
Posts: 162 (01/17/2009 2:34 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Idk, I find that I write the best songs when both the lyrics and melody come hand in hand. Some times I'll just sing nanana's along to a made up melody and whatever I'm feeling at the moment comes out as words. Then I just go on from there! Yeah, rhyming is often overused. I remember John talked about how the key to writing a good song is phonetics, and I totally agree. You can string a bunch of words together, but it'll only fit if it sounds good rolling off your tongue. Songwriting definitely takes a bunch of practice haha. "...just keep me where the light is" Gibson Les Paul Studio (Wine Red, Gold) Fender John Mayer Signature Stratocaster (3-Tone Sunburst) Ibanez PF5ECE Dreadnought Cutaway Peavey Classic 30
bdam123		#10	[-]
Posts: 1094 (01/17/2009 6:50 AM) Could I ever Breakaway? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	get a team Sex, Drugs, Rock N' Rap WHANK.COM Myspace easydoesitTV
nicosci		#11	[-]
Posts: 793 (01/17/2009 8:08 AM) I'm never speaking up again... Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I thinks its subjective meaning it depends on your style or what music you wanna make. It could be poetry to just guitar driven lyrics ...
derrick		#12	[-]
Posts: 52 (01/17/2009 9:10 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	handonam wrote: Rocknroll04, you need to post more often (and post some things you've learned about that book as well) How do you guys start writing your lyrics? The easiest thing for me when starting is to get something down, anything, no matter how cliche or terrible the line may be get it down. Get a full V,C,V,C worth of lyrics or whatever it is you want or have layed out instrumentally. Then go back and fix the cliches, modify bits and pieces, etc. It is usually much easier to make a song perfect (to you) than to write the song of all songs right off the bat. Hope this helped a bit.
l33tm4n24		#13	[-]
Posts: 3106 (01/17/2009 10:26 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	you could make lyrics out of anything! even a stalker or paparatizzi member. take this example JM Made up: "I am a loser, nobody likes me I'm a guy with a red beard, Environmentally safe, I'm a guy with a big red beard, And I follow John Mayer, all the way here" just start singing about how you feel or an event or feeling. then just let the words come to you! www.youtube.com/l33tm4n321 check me out. add me as a friend if any MSMers have Youtube accounts
tomzac		#14	[-]
Posts: 69 (01/17/2009 12:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	'I also wanna talk about… you guys all songwriters? [asks audience} a lot? (crowd cheers) I wanna talk about something that people don't really think about, I think, first of all, I don't think lyrics matter as much as you think I think they do, umm (crowd laughs). I think phonetics mean more than lyrics ever will - phonetics - umm, how the words sound - there's people who write - I've seen some amazing lyric writers, I've heard some people write lyrics that were incredibly clever, incredibly descriptive, incredibly moving lyrics, but they were set to music in a way that I couldn't remember, I couldn't sing back again and its phonetics that I think is the first rule of lyric writing more than anything else. I would rather have a song that didn't make any sense, sound really good rolling off the tongue, right, than have something that's full of really cool turns of the word that people could be like "yeah, ehh, that's smart thinking" (crowd laughs) rather, rather, I mean most of the hit songs, some of the hit songs, hit songs have words that sound great to sing along - no hit songs have words that don't - I'm sorry - they just don't.' - John Mayer, Berklee clinic 2004 (?)
handonam		#15	[-]
Posts: 2069 (01/18/2009 2:12 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	l33tm4n24 wrote: you could make lyrics out of anything! even a stalker or paparatizzi member. take this example JM Made up: "I am a loser, nobody likes me I'm a guy with a red beard, Environmentally safe, I'm a guy with a big red beard, And I follow John Mayer, all the way here" just start singing about how you feel or an event or feeling. then just let the words come to you! wasn't really what i was asking. i was asking about the structuring, and not about "how to get ideas for lyrics"
ivy		#16	[-]
Posts: 162 (01/18/2009 6:16 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	well if you want to talk about song structure, i think one of the most overused structures is the V C V C B C. Unfortunately, it works, so I can't argue against it. It'd be nice to break out of it and be more original some times though. "...just keep me where the light is"
handonam		#17	[-]
Posts: 2069 (01/18/2009 8:05 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	ivy wrote: well if you want to talk about song structure, i think one of the most overused structures is the V C V C B C. Unfortunately, it works, so I can't argue against it. It'd be nice to break out of it and be more original some times though. or well, not really the structure, but the techniques haha i know it would send us to the "go back to high school english" direction, but i'm thinking of something like what you guys have said: importances of phonetics and rhyming, how to deal with cliches, etc. oh, and when is the appropriate time to repeat a line? things like that too or how you would outline your lyrics (like how you would outline an essay, yuck)
Rocknroll04		#18	[-]
Posts: 57 (01/18/2009 6:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	handonam wrote: Rocknroll04, you need to post more often (and post some things you've learned about that book as well) How do you guys start writing your lyrics? Hey, Thanks. I just try to be helpful. That book is worth more than the $10 I paid for it. It really talks about making your writing flow and become more interesting. It has a bunch of ten minute exercises. It elaborates on using the "rules if writing" and when to break them. When Pat talks about changing point of view in the writing really helped me a lot. But, I think the biggest lesson in the book is him showing you how to achieve the writers mindset and to come up with fresh metaphors and other types of figurative language. If you ever get a chance try to go to one of Pat Pattison's weekend clinics. -Ryan
ivy		#19	[-]
Posts: 162 (01/19/2009 9:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	handonam wrote: ivy wrote: well if you want to talk about song structure, i think one of the most overused structures is the V C V C B C. Unfortunately, it works, so I can't argue against it. It'd be nice to break out of it and be more original some times though. or well, not really the structure, but the techniques haha i know it would send us to the "go back to high school english" direction, but i'm thinking of something like what you guys have said: importances of phonetics and rhyming, how to deal with cliches, etc. oh, and when is the appropriate time to repeat a line? things like that too or how you would outline your lyrics (like how you would outline an essay, yuck) haha I agree, yuck (outlining lyrics). Something you could play around with is writing circular songs as opposed to linear ones. Lyrics in a song are just as important as words in an essay, and you always want to leave the listener or reader with something they can hold on to at the end of the song. So like, say you introduce a word or an idea in your first verse or wherever, and towards the end of the song you use that same concept but in a different and catchy way. I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying, but I gave it a shot. Also, having a climax is just as crucial in a song as it is in a book. You don't want your song to sound monotonous and boring. That's all I can think of for now. I'm still learning and honing my songwriting skills. "...just keep me where the light is"
handonam		#20	[-]
Posts: 2069 (01/19/2009 9:37 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	ivy wrote: handonam wrote: ivy wrote: well if you want to talk about song structure, i think one of the most overused structures is the V C V C B C. Unfortunately, it works, so I can't argue against it. It'd be nice to break out of it and be more original some times though. or well, not really the structure, but the techniques haha i know it would send us to the "go back to high school english" direction, but i'm thinking of something like what you guys have said: importances of phonetics and rhyming, how to deal with cliches, etc. oh, and when is the appropriate time to repeat a line? things like that too or how you would outline your lyrics (like how you would outline an essay, yuck) haha I agree, yuck (outlining lyrics). Something you could play around with is writing circular songs as opposed to linear ones. Lyrics in a song are just as important as words in an essay, and you always want to leave the listener or reader with something they can hold on to at the end of the song. So like, say you introduce a word or an idea in your first verse or wherever, and towards the end of the song you use that same concept but in a different and catchy way. I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying, but I gave it a shot. Also, having a climax is just as crucial in a song as it is in a book. You don't want your song to sound monotonous and boring. That's all I can think of for now. I'm still learning and honing my songwriting skills. like a revelation? this reminds me of teh Heroes circle.

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Lyric writing tips

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